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Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-1

Name of individual making submission: DR-1 Peter Bagley

Responses to questions in submission form


Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

To protect the paying customer (the public) in all services provided by any and all trades persons.


2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

The college should serve both the paying public and the trades people. It must and should be a harmony if it is to work properly and fairly.


3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

They should have meetings if and when possible with all public groups or at least have written concerns addressed to the trades board for consideration of any concerns so they may be fairly addressed.


4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

I feel they will never achieve proper protection unless they actually address the issues trades people have.


5. How should the College advance the public interest?

By interviewing all trades and discussing their problems and concerns, this will trickle down to quality and professional results to the general public.





Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

scope or perception of our duties vary from one place to another, there seems to be no level playing field or unity in tasks or incentive to do quality work.


7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?

yes to this extent, the core defines what your trade is and it's responsibilities are. where the peripherals are what all trades involve as a skilled trade , professionalism


8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

yes I believe both. It should define exactly what the duties and expectations should be in all trades, that is to work under a journeyman learning the trade not being used as cheap labour. Also someone has to be responsible for the apprentices work and quality to protect the public. This is NOT being done!


9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

ask for any anonymous input from trades people if they observe questionable procedures. Doing random inspections on businesses to see if they are following proper protocol.


10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

From what I see so far it's no different then the previous set up just costing the trades people extra for nothing!


11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

If it's not enforceable why endorse it? That's like making a law and no one makes sure it's followed. Has to be enforced If the trades are to get better.


12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

Defiantly! Most work places or areas of work pose some risks or hazards and require special procedures and safety equipment. The same requirements of the trades oerson to be in that environment should apply to all entering that area.


13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

This I don't know.If it means doing more then one job or duty at a time


14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.

Then yes to the above it does effect me. puts undo stress and pressure on a trades person and may result in misstakes or cause risk factors.


15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

I don't know about the legal principle , but any time there is undo and forced pressure it is not good for both the trades person or the public. this should be monitored and addresses The trades people should be allowed to anomalously report incidents for investigation.





Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

I would say any work that requires a high level of skill training and responsibilities to perform should be and have qualifications to it. work that is unique and not as demanding could be voluntary.


17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?

I believe most of the classifications to be in line to protect the public but not enforced In my trade you can walk into a shop and not know who is working on your vehicle or their qualifications and not be checked by a journeyman.Thats like having major surgery domne by an intern and not checked by the surgon before your released.


18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?

very much so


19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

I don't believe that's necessary, just enforce the ones we have don't pile on more things if we can't enforce the ones we have. You can have all the classifications up your kazooo , but if you don't enforce the basic common sense ones, what good are they ? just more red tape and cost.


20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

I think for it to actually work it should be a blend of board members and current trades people. Then and only then will you achieve closer harmony and success in all trades.


21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

Talk and ask for trades people who actually and currently work in these trades to submit their ideas and inputs for discussion. and implement their findings and ideas.


22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

Like i said again no one enforced the current ones so why fix something that may not be brohe?


23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?

not really.


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?

not really, if you want more people to enter the trades raising the lic fees is not the right approach, cleaning up the many problems and raising pride and respect for the trades persons is the way to go about it.





Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

not the least.


26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

no because all trades have different aspects andneeds to be adresses.


27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

The college should look after the trades people that should be their priority it should be specialized to do just that, where the labour board is generic and broad.





Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question