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Dean Review Consultation Questions

Written submission to Dean review

Submission number: DR-62

Name of organisation making submission: DR-62 Lanark Leeds Home Builders Association

Responses to questions in submission form


Section A - The Public Interest in this Review

1. What do you understand by public interest?

We believe the public interest represents the interest of the general public with respect to those individuals who hire a trade for the purpose of home construction. We as individuals and as small business owners feel it is important to protect the public's interest with respect to safety and affordability.


2. Who should the College serve? Who is “the public” in the public interest and what groups make up the public?

The College should serve and represent the trades, the employees, the employers as well as the public. We do not believe this is equally or fairly represented across the Board, we feel it is very one-sided. For example, with respect to the College, what percent is union vs. non-union? Who makes up the Board that is approving these decisions? No


3. How should the College make decisions in the public interest where different segments of the public may have opposing interests?

These decisions should be made by a Board of equal members.


4. Is the College currently protecting the public interest?

No. With respect to the trades there are many governed bodies already protecting the public interest, Chief Building Officials, Tarion Corporation, Ministry of Labour, Electrical inspectors. The College is adding yet another layer of bylaws and policies that is not warranted within the trades. This 'layer' will drive up costs for the general public and kill family owned and operated business, the shear heart of small town Ontario.


5. How should the College advance the public interest?

As small town, family owned and operated business; it is our duty to protect the public interest. We have work hard, over many generations to build successful businesses and we would like to continue doing so, for our children's generation and our grandchildren's generation. Let us do what we do best, let us serve and protect the small town public. The College should back off and let us do our jobs. There is already too much overlap with the existing regulations.





Section B - Issues Related to Scopes of Practice (SoPs)

6. What impact do SoPs in regulation have on your daily work activities or on the way you conduct business? What aspects of an SoP are important to the work of your trade? Please explain.

Scopes of Practice make it more difficult for us, as trades, to complete our job, efficiently and effectively. We will not be allowed to ask our labour's to sweep floors or install electrical boxes. In small town communities, we feel it is necessary to let unregulated trades overlap each other to minimize overall cost, training and the time to conduct a service. If this is the direction we are taking, we will have to hire licensed drywallers, carpenters etc. Unemployment will increase across Ontario.


7. Do you agree with the suggestion that trades may have core elements as well as peripheral elements?

This depends on the definition of a peripheral element. Will these elements fall under the SOP of a carpentry trade?


8. What should be the key elements of an SoP? In particular, should the SoP for a trade list all of the tasks, activities or functions in which an apprentice should be trained, only those that are unique to the trade, or only those that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

We feel only those unique to the trade should be key elements of a SOP.


9. How should a review or change in SoP be carried out?

A change should be under the review of a Board of equal representation. Members would include union, non-union, rural, metropolitan, general public and especially the voice of the tradespeople.


10. Can or should the existing SoP provisions support the College’s diverse functions (e.g., apprenticeship training, enforcement, classification reviews)? Please explain.

The College should be for training for the specific trades. All enforcement reviews should be conducted by governing bodies that are already in place.


11. Should the entire SoP for a compulsory trade be enforceable or be subject to enforcement? Please explain.

We feel this question should be a 'yes' answer but only if the suggested direction is taken in previous questions.


12. Could the College benefit from a distinct list of compulsory activities that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? Please explain.

No, this is already well covered by the various parties including building and electrical inspectors, Ministry of Labour, Tarion Corporation etc.


13. What is your understanding of what an overlap between SoPs is?

An overlap between SoP's is common in the trades for example: a carpenter can do their own painting, insulation, drywall etc.


14. Do overlaps between SoPs in regulation have an impact on your daily work or on the way you conduct business? Please explain.

Not at this time but if this is enforced, it will. Depending on what trades become a mandatory trade.


15. Does the application of the third legal interpretation principle on overlapping SoPs pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job? Please explain. If so, what can and should be done about it?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question





Section C - Classification or Reclassification of Trades as Compulsory or Voluntary

16. What makes a compulsory trade compulsory and what makes a voluntary trade voluntary?

The Board of Directors of the College of Trades makes this decision and we believe the Board is not represented fairly.


17. Is the current classification of trades as either compulsory or voluntary aligned with the College’s duty to serve and protect the public interest?

No, we feel the College is not serving or protecting the public's interest. We feel that the College as an organization will dramatically increase the cost to the public. We feel they are one-sided and only protecting their own interest.


18. Is it reasonable to assume that there may be elements in the SoP for a trade that are inherently hazardous or that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople, or other workers on the job?

No, this is not reasonable to assume. Many governing bodies are already in place to protect the public. Tradespeople and other workers on the job. The Ministry of Labour conducts safety inspections, the Chief Building Officials oversee permits and approvals, and every registered small business owner enforces training and licensing. Why do we need another policy from the College?


19. Could compulsory certification be limited to either the core elements of a trade or those tasks, activities, or functions that may pose a risk of harm to the public, tradespeople or other workers on the job? What kind of impact would these approaches have on your daily work or on the way you conduct business?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question


20. Should the College continue to rely on an adjudicative review panel approach (i.e., the Ontario Labour Relations Board model) or should a different model be considered? Please explain.

Per our previous response, the Board should be made of equal representation. We are very concerned this Board will be unfairly represented by individuals who do not understand how business is conducted in small communities.


21. How should expert opinion be obtained?

Expert opinion should be obtained from experts from the field based on the topic of discussion. For example a voice from the public, the trades, and local business owners.


22. Are the current criteria for trade classification reviews set out in O. Reg. 458/11 consistent with the public interest? Please explain.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question


23. Are the criteria specific, clear and measurable enough to inform you of what data and evidence are needed to meet those criteria?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question


24. Are the existing criteria the right criteria?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question





Section D - Decisions of the Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB)

25. Do the scopes of practice (SoPs) in regulation reflect the way in which work is actually assigned in your trade or sector?

Respondent did not provide a response to this question


26. Do you agree with the notion that most jurisdictional disputes arise from peripheral elements of the trades? Please explain.

Yes. We also feel that this will become more of a problem, if and when more trades become mandatory.


27. What consideration should the College give, if any, to the decisions made by the OLRB in jurisdictional or work assignment disputes under the Labour Relations Act? If the College were to adopt the OLRB's decisions, what impact would that have on your trade and the way you conduct business? Please explain.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question





Section E - General Response and Comments

28. Please provide additional comments below, if any.

Respondent did not provide a response to this question